In churning, there are times in which miles are locked, cash is frozen, stock market trades are blocked, ACHs are held, sports books aren’t paying, and a dozen other circumstances get in your way, all of which mean you’re not able to:
Earn interest on your money
Make stock trades when it’s advantageous
Book award tickets when availability pops
It’s easy to look back on those lost opportunities and dwell on the financial loss, and psychologically speaking a small loss hurts more than a big win feels good. My best advice for dealing with those losses is to learn from them, but don’t dwell on them. After you’ve examined them and figured out what you could do differently in the future, start looking forward.
When you’re collecting datapoints or asking for advice, don’t forget that absolutes are almost never there. Instead, we see trends and patterns.
*: Sometimes It’s either route specific, destination specific, airline specific, bank specific, person specific, or card specific. Or maybe just specific specific.
MEAB in a nutshell, sometimes the “may” is absolute.
There’s a spectrum of what churning blogs will talk about, ranging from ultra low frequency things like fuel dumps to an onslaught of affiliate card articles for the new big bank special. Somewhere close to the fuel dump end of that spectrum is discussion about credit card retention offers. Retention isn’t mentioned much, not because it’s a fragile secret, but rather most credit card affiliates relationships forbid bloggers from discussing it at all. Fortunately (?) though, I’m not burdened with affiliate relationships.
The Call
Retention offers encourage you to hold on to a card you might otherwise cancel, and should it help your mental model you can think of them as a secondary sign-up bonus for the same card. The mechanics of getting a retention offer are simple, call the number on the back of your card and say something like:
I was considering closing my card ending in [XXXX] because [reason], but before I decide what to do I was wondering if there were any retention offers?
Most banks will have an offer on most cards, and some banks, especially Citi and American Express, often have multiple offers available and occasionally won’t give the best one first. So, assuming an offer is available, the next thing to say is something like:
Hmm, thanks. Are there any different retention offers or than this one available?
You may have to do this multiple times to get the best offer.
The Juice
What do backs offer for retention? Typically something like:
American Express: 15,000-120,000 points (or equivalent statement credit) with some spend
Chase: $100-$300 statement credit
Citi: $100-$200 statement credit, bonus multiples on all spend, or an annual fee waiver
Barclays: Annual fee waiver
US Bank: Annual fee waiver, $100-$300 statement credit
This works on no-annual fee cards and on co-branded cards too.
The Gotchas
Some banks, especially American Express, see retention as a two-way street. If you get a retention offer, plan on keeping that card open for at least 366 days unless you want to be banished to pop-up jail and have a (low probability) retention bonus clawback.
Have a nice Thursday friends!
Alternative retention script (may not work as well).
One of my 17 favorite slogans is “always be probing.” Sometimes, that probing involves throwing every gift card type you can think of at a FinTech to see what sticks. But, it’s also easy to get stuck in a rut because you don’t want to buy another American Express gift card as a test since they’re hard to liquidate. So you end up never buying one nor testing it, and then you potentially miss out on a goldmine.
To counter this effect, I’d suggest that you find a way to liquidate every type of gift card out there even if it comes at a relatively high cost, because obscure gift cards might be integral to your next six figure play but you have to buy one to test first. A few ideas for last resort:
– You’ve got until July 19 June 20 to get in under the old structure – Annual fees will increase – Monthly and annual credits will change – There will be a business version of the card
Hopefully you’ve already got a Sapphire Reserve or you’ll be under 5/24 by July 19 to apply under the older, almost certainly better terms. If you’re a “let’s ride the vibes” kind of person, you can read the rumors here.
– $75 off of $300 at Avis through September 7 – $100 off of $500 at some Hyatts through September 15 – $50-$80 off of $250 at Hilton through December 9
Yes, gamers gonna game, but also Apire resort credit stack, amirite?
In general this is a better offer than the public 80,000 offer, unless you’re getting outsized value for SkyMiles which is technically still possible, the same way that it’s technically possible for a Razor scooter to out-pace a Volkswagen Beetle.
You’ve got 75 days after adding the offer to use it, and once you use it the offer remains valid for another hour. After that hour, you can add it again and start over. If this seems like deja-vu, that’s because we had the same discussion yesterday about Food Lion.
Unsolicited advice: When you’re part of a private group that helps you spend on cards in special ways, consider making sure you understand how the group owners make money or fund the operation. If you can’t answer how, maybe consider your position and exposure.
EDITOR’S NOTE: This is a bonus guest post from SideShowBob233 thrown together after another run-in with a bank.
After hearing about another recent incident with a similar result, I wanted to share my story and my lessons learned from having my American Express account hacked.
I woke up to a bunch of emails from AmEx showing my password was reset, my phone number was changed and there were some gift card redemptions. Not a pleasant thing to see, but I had to get the kids to school so I had to put it off. The emails were hours old anyway, whatever damage happened was already done.
When I checked later, I found the scammer had managed to reset the password on one of my personal Platinum cards, (because who doesn’t have more than one $695 annual fee card lying around under a pile of rakes?) get into my login, and apparently used chat to go to town (he – and I’ll refer to the scammer as he but it could have been a she as I’m all for equal opportunity scamming) seemingly had my 3 digit code from the back of the card and possibly my security word, but I’m not sure. Below is a redacted (to protect the innocent, or in this case the mildly guilty) chat log of the scammer’s interactions with AmEx:
2 AM local time, SideShowBob233 is snoring loudly while sleeping in a room filled with rakes:
Amex chat: Hi Bob, please select one of these options, or in a few words tell me what you need help with.
Scammer: Hi. My name is SideShowBob233 (the 233 is my IQ). I want to request my pending points to be available. I want to use them right now. I make all my payments through Autopay and all my payments are on time. I also have orange hair.
Amex: A Customer Care Professional will be with you shortly.
Amex: Hi Bob. This is Francis [likely not the Pope – but I wasn’t 100% sure]. I see that you are chatting to accelerate pending points.
Amex: Let me go ahead and review your account and also browse the internet while I make you wait.
Amex: Kindly verify the last five digits of the card in question and then when you last had sex
Scammer: 96969 and right now
Amex: Thank you. I am checking on it.
Scammer: Let me change that last answer as I’m already done 😬
Amex: Are you referring to the 69,420 points?
Scammer: Yes
Amex: I have accelerated pending points and it has been added into your reward points balance.
Scammer: Thank you kindly now can you help me scam some more?
Scammer: Can you help update my new office or business phone number on my accounts, cell number remains the same and I also want to use some of my Platinum card rewards balance and order 1 $69 egift card.
Amex: To update the number, I will help you to update it on the account.
Amex: Please share the business phone number you wish to add on the account.
Scammer: The online option does not seem to work, When I add the gift card to cart, the page keeps on loading
Amex: I kindly ask that you consider switching to a different browser, or alternatively, you may clear the cache, cookies, and browsing history of your current browser.
Amex: After doing so, please open a new tab and log into your online account once more; this should resolve the issue.
Scammer: I am not doing all of this right now. Can you just order it or I will try later?
[Note the angryish/insistent tone – red flag]
Scammer: XXXXXXXXX (his phone number – surprisingly NOT 1-800-SCAM-MER)
Scammer: This is the new business phone number
Amex: Do you have platinum card handy ending with 96969?
Scammer: I do
Amex: Perfect. To proceed, I will need to ask you a few security questions to ensure the process is conducted accurately on your account.
Amex: To protect your account security, please answer the following question.
Scammer: Submitted
Amex: To protect your account security, please answer the following question.
Scammer: Submitted
Amex: I have added the business number to the account.
Amex: I have ordered your $69 egift card. You will receive confirmation E-mail for the same and it will be available to use in next 4-24 hours.
Now some comments:
The scammer seemed to have had to have both the 4 digit code on the front and 3 digit code on the back of my card. Not clear how they got it as the card rarely leaves my house and in fact is almost never used. It was replaced recently, which is how I am guessing it was compromised – but I am not more than 69.420% convinced that’s the case. A swiper wouldn’t get the 3 digit code on the back but I guess if there was a camera there too, it could have. The card was used in person exactly one time, at a Saks a few weeks ago. Did not see anything on the card reader and I was there a while; our family likes to buy stuff at Saks for some reason (might be the large clown shoes they sell).
Now SideShowBob233 you say to yourself, again out loud while streaking through your backyard again because it’s the only way to talk over the voices you’re hearing in your head, how could you have prevented this? I have some ideas only some of which come from the voices in my head.
First, turn on two factor authentication in your logins. I always avoided it and complained extensively in the few cases where AmEx forced it on me (My friends, neighbors and even random hobos near Dollar General can confirm my complaining). No longer. Yes, it’s a PITA but it would have kept the scammer out of my login. Second, turn on 2FA some more. If you don’t know how to do level two 2FA, what are you even doing with your life? I mean come on dude.
Also change your security word periodically, I don’t know if the scammer had mine or not, but mine was a word nobody would ever guess (not, it’s not rake, not even with a 69 after it), if they did they would have had to have gotten it from Amex rep when I called in the past. It’s not something you’d know about me either. P2 doesn’t even know it.
Not many people are aware of it, but the AmEx card numbering scheme is very outdated, and there are not all that many unique numbers on AmEx cards. Losing your card and getting a replacement number gives a very predictable result, both for the new card number AND the expiration date, meaning the 4 and 3 digit codes are the only things that are really secure once your card number is compromised. This is likely what led to the tons of Facebook $2 fraud but who knows, maybe Zuck just needed a new island. So if a number is compromised consider losing the card 2-3 times to randomize it a little bit (both the replacement expiration date and the last digit).
My case had a (mostly) happy ending – AmEx apparently caught the fraud and invalidated the cards before I even called. After uploading a DNA sample, stool sample, and Clorox wiping down my scanner, my accounts were cleared and I am now free to go back into the AmEx void to be scammed again. My scanner still isn’t speaking to me though.
– SideShowBob233
SideShowBob233’s two factor authentication (level two) helps protect lunch.
“If your JAL Mileage Bank account is less than 60 days old, there will be up to a 7 day hold before you can use JAL miles to book travel.”
It turns out that Bilt is inadvertently teaching us another lesson, which is that unseasoned accounts can often cause you to be unable to use your miles until your account is old enough or until you jump through hoops like:
Having older accounts with some activity mitigates these problems, so when you do your churning spring cleaning, consider seasoning mileage accounts that you may use in the future.
