[OFFER DEAD, MR accounts frozen, some bonuses clawed back] 100k Amex Plat (USA)
Aug 20, 2016, 12:53 pm
#736
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,269
OK, then I was wrong, and the outcome here is a foregone conclusion. Great news.
There was no reliance. He got his answer after the fact. It's hard to argue that you relied on a CSR when you didn't do anything based on what you were told.
There was no reliance. He got his answer after the fact. It's hard to argue that you relied on a CSR when you didn't do anything based on what you were told.
Aug 20, 2016, 12:56 pm
#737
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,269
Not totally correct. A significant question when determining the meaning of a contractual relationship is 'what were the reasonable expectations of the parties when the contract was entered into?'
In this case, it could be argued that consistent prior conduct contributed to reasonable expectations. Regardless, the weight of evidence even without prior conduct is sufficiently compelling: a written statement by an agent of the corporation; the fact that the Ameriprise and regular platinum look physically different; the fact that the names of the cards are different; the fact that points were awarded and then taken away, and; the fact that the Ameriprise card can't be accessed on the regular Amex website.
If you want to argue that there's sufficient ambiguity or leniency in the terms to allow for Amex's interpretation, you have to remember the rule of contra proferentem, that where there is ambiguity in a contract of adhesion (such as a credit agreement), that ambiguity must be read in favour of the person who did not draft the contract. So unless Amex expressly states that the Ameriprise card is the same product, any reading would be relying on ambiguous terms, which would have to be read in my favour.
In this case, it could be argued that consistent prior conduct contributed to reasonable expectations. Regardless, the weight of evidence even without prior conduct is sufficiently compelling: a written statement by an agent of the corporation; the fact that the Ameriprise and regular platinum look physically different; the fact that the names of the cards are different; the fact that points were awarded and then taken away, and; the fact that the Ameriprise card can't be accessed on the regular Amex website.
If you want to argue that there's sufficient ambiguity or leniency in the terms to allow for Amex's interpretation, you have to remember the rule of contra proferentem, that where there is ambiguity in a contract of adhesion (such as a credit agreement), that ambiguity must be read in favour of the person who did not draft the contract. So unless Amex expressly states that the Ameriprise card is the same product, any reading would be relying on ambiguous terms, which would have to be read in my favour.
Aug 20, 2016, 1:18 pm
#738
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 46
I called Amex today. Funny thing is the first rep confirmed with some other techonical team and told me because I did a stroe return so they claw the 100,000 points back. The only credit which might be related to so called "return" is the Amex BestBuy offer - $25 credit. Besides, the net purchase I made is far more than $3000.
Since the first rep refused to make any action, I asked to speak with supervisor. The kind supervisor mentioned there was a system problem triggered the clawback. She opened a case and said will help me to reissue the 100,000 MR points.
Perhaps nothing would be changed. Anyway it's better than the first rep, rude and helpless.
Since the first rep refused to make any action, I asked to speak with supervisor. The kind supervisor mentioned there was a system problem triggered the clawback. She opened a case and said will help me to reissue the 100,000 MR points.
Perhaps nothing would be changed. Anyway it's better than the first rep, rude and helpless.
Aug 20, 2016, 2:05 pm
#739
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,740
I called Amex today. Funny thing is the first rep confirmed with some other techonical team and told me because I did a stroe return so they claw the 100,000 points back. The only credit which might be related to so called "return" is the Amex BestBuy offer - $25 credit. Besides, the net purchase I made is far more than $3000.
Since the first rep refused to make any action, I asked to speak with supervisor. The kind supervisor mentioned there was a system problem triggered the clawback. She opened a case and said will help me to reissue the 100,000 MR points.
Perhaps nothing would be changed. Anyway it's better than the first rep, rude and helpless.
Since the first rep refused to make any action, I asked to speak with supervisor. The kind supervisor mentioned there was a system problem triggered the clawback. She opened a case and said will help me to reissue the 100,000 MR points.
Perhaps nothing would be changed. Anyway it's better than the first rep, rude and helpless.
Aug 20, 2016, 3:10 pm
#740
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Louisiana, MSY
Programs: Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Elite
Posts: 139
I called Amex today. Funny thing is the first rep confirmed with some other techonical team and told me because I did a stroe return so they claw the 100,000 points back. The only credit which might be related to so called "return" is the Amex BestBuy offer - $25 credit. Besides, the net purchase I made is far more than $3000.
Since the first rep refused to make any action, I asked to speak with supervisor. The kind supervisor mentioned there was a system problem triggered the clawback. She opened a case and said will help me to reissue the 100,000 MR points.
Perhaps nothing would be changed. Anyway it's better than the first rep, rude and helpless.
Since the first rep refused to make any action, I asked to speak with supervisor. The kind supervisor mentioned there was a system problem triggered the clawback. She opened a case and said will help me to reissue the 100,000 MR points.
Perhaps nothing would be changed. Anyway it's better than the first rep, rude and helpless.
I was told the adjustment was due to "returns." They went through my transactions and saw that that was inaccurate. And apparently the IT system thought that my payments were merchant credits (yeah right).
I have had no other Plat products in the past. Did have a $2.49K charge at gc.com. Although about $1K spend was organic.
Don't know what to think of it. Points were deducted yesterday. I called last night. So far no points back.
Aug 20, 2016, 6:06 pm
#742
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,740
To sum up the DPs we have so far for crawl back cases -
1) No MS spend does not matter, as several reported all organic spend, still suffer crawl back.
2) Speculation on previous Plat products become a factor but then now we also have at least 2 DPs that the cardholders have NO previous Plat product or MR earning product. So this refutes the notion of AMEX now align the practice more to the T&Cs.
3) Multiple DPs on reason given being refunds triggered the crawl back - despite the refunds have nothing to do with the threshold spending, or in some cases, the refunds are AMEX statement credits on AMEX Offers, or from card benefits, which should not ever count against purchase to begin with and all the DPs indicate that the credits do not reduce the spend to below threshold.
Also the above reason is specifically notated to the accounts as crawl back reason.
I may have omitted some other "factors", but the above have shown that the crawl back does not have any theory basis that makes any sense. It is probably really due to serious IT issue that AMEX was trying to do some modification and then completely messing up the whole thing.
The only thing we know for sure is, AMEX really screws up from the beginning, and the subsequent handling is very poor, especially the "refund" triggered crawl back being given as reason...
1) No MS spend does not matter, as several reported all organic spend, still suffer crawl back.
2) Speculation on previous Plat products become a factor but then now we also have at least 2 DPs that the cardholders have NO previous Plat product or MR earning product. So this refutes the notion of AMEX now align the practice more to the T&Cs.
3) Multiple DPs on reason given being refunds triggered the crawl back - despite the refunds have nothing to do with the threshold spending, or in some cases, the refunds are AMEX statement credits on AMEX Offers, or from card benefits, which should not ever count against purchase to begin with and all the DPs indicate that the credits do not reduce the spend to below threshold.
Also the above reason is specifically notated to the accounts as crawl back reason.
I may have omitted some other "factors", but the above have shown that the crawl back does not have any theory basis that makes any sense. It is probably really due to serious IT issue that AMEX was trying to do some modification and then completely messing up the whole thing.
The only thing we know for sure is, AMEX really screws up from the beginning, and the subsequent handling is very poor, especially the "refund" triggered crawl back being given as reason...
Aug 20, 2016, 8:00 pm
#743
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: AA Platinum; WN Companion Pass
Posts: 129
Just used live chat because the office is closed. CSR told me it was returns at first, then when I pointed out I didn't have any returns, asked me to call tomorrow. No other plat card in past, $2500 MS, $2800 organic spend.
Aug 20, 2016, 10:23 pm
#744
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,878
To sum up the DPs we have so far for crawl back cases -
1) No MS spend does not matter, as several reported all organic spend, still suffer crawl back.
2) Speculation on previous Plat products become a factor but then now we also have at least 2 DPs that the cardholders have NO previous Plat product or MR earning product. So this refutes the notion of AMEX now align the practice more to the T&Cs.
3) Multiple DPs on reason given being refunds triggered the crawl back - despite the refunds have nothing to do with the threshold spending, or in some cases, the refunds are AMEX statement credits on AMEX Offers, or from card benefits, which should not ever count against purchase to begin with and all the DPs indicate that the credits do not reduce the spend to below threshold.
Also the above reason is specifically notated to the accounts as crawl back reason.
I may have omitted some other "factors", but the above have shown that the crawl back does not have any theory basis that makes any sense. It is probably really due to serious IT issue that AMEX was trying to do some modification and then completely messing up the whole thing.
The only thing we know for sure is, AMEX really screws up from the beginning, and the subsequent handling is very poor, especially the "refund" triggered crawl back being given as reason...
1) No MS spend does not matter, as several reported all organic spend, still suffer crawl back.
2) Speculation on previous Plat products become a factor but then now we also have at least 2 DPs that the cardholders have NO previous Plat product or MR earning product. So this refutes the notion of AMEX now align the practice more to the T&Cs.
3) Multiple DPs on reason given being refunds triggered the crawl back - despite the refunds have nothing to do with the threshold spending, or in some cases, the refunds are AMEX statement credits on AMEX Offers, or from card benefits, which should not ever count against purchase to begin with and all the DPs indicate that the credits do not reduce the spend to below threshold.
Also the above reason is specifically notated to the accounts as crawl back reason.
I may have omitted some other "factors", but the above have shown that the crawl back does not have any theory basis that makes any sense. It is probably really due to serious IT issue that AMEX was trying to do some modification and then completely messing up the whole thing.
The only thing we know for sure is, AMEX really screws up from the beginning, and the subsequent handling is very poor, especially the "refund" triggered crawl back being given as reason...
Aug 20, 2016, 11:16 pm
#745
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 72
Could you simply post all the transactions with dates for us to analyze?
Here is a new twist. Take it however you want to interpret but AMEX is clearly in the wrong here.
2 days ago friend found out his 100K was taken back. Friend spent over $8K in the 90 days period, at Expedia, Hilton, Delta and State Farm for the majority of it. The family had a July vacation in London and he booked some expensive daytrips using the Plat card in June, a DL redemption as well as property insurances.
Upon calling Membership Reward after finding out 100K were taken back, he was informed by the MR rep that the notation on his account was that it was due to he made a $500+ return during the promotion period, despite he had spend $8K+, all organic spend.
Friend pointed out he had spend $8K+ so a $500+ return should not ever affect the required spend being met within the promo period. MR Rep agreed and open a case "to investigate".
It looks either AMEX had some stupid reviewers or its IT had serious programming flaw.
2 days ago friend found out his 100K was taken back. Friend spent over $8K in the 90 days period, at Expedia, Hilton, Delta and State Farm for the majority of it. The family had a July vacation in London and he booked some expensive daytrips using the Plat card in June, a DL redemption as well as property insurances.
Upon calling Membership Reward after finding out 100K were taken back, he was informed by the MR rep that the notation on his account was that it was due to he made a $500+ return during the promotion period, despite he had spend $8K+, all organic spend.
Friend pointed out he had spend $8K+ so a $500+ return should not ever affect the required spend being met within the promo period. MR Rep agreed and open a case "to investigate".
It looks either AMEX had some stupid reviewers or its IT had serious programming flaw.
Aug 21, 2016, 9:16 am
#746
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 24
This is all very troubling.... I recently signed up for 3 Amex cards and am in the process of meeting the spend. I guess I will have to do it organically just to be safe for the time being. Luckily I did the Plat last year so I avoided this issue with the 100k which is still safe in my account.
Aug 21, 2016, 12:35 pm
#747
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11
Points Locked
Hi -
I took advantage of the 100K bonus for platinum sign up in May of this year, I had about 100K points in my account already. I completed the spend and received the 100K bonus, so now I have 210K points.
I wanted to take advantage of the BA transfer, so tried to move 210K points (=252K avios) to BA. I've transferred points to BA in the past without difficulty. This time it did not go through, I received an error. After much calling and time on hold I was told by Membership Rewards that the exact day I tried to transfer points to BA a hold was placed on the points by "corporate" to determine "if all the points were received appropriately". They said it could take 6 - 8 weeks to determine this and there was nothing more I could do. Coincidently 8 weeks would put me outside of the BA promotion date.
Has anyone every ran into this? Thoughts/help appreciated.
I took advantage of the 100K bonus for platinum sign up in May of this year, I had about 100K points in my account already. I completed the spend and received the 100K bonus, so now I have 210K points.
I wanted to take advantage of the BA transfer, so tried to move 210K points (=252K avios) to BA. I've transferred points to BA in the past without difficulty. This time it did not go through, I received an error. After much calling and time on hold I was told by Membership Rewards that the exact day I tried to transfer points to BA a hold was placed on the points by "corporate" to determine "if all the points were received appropriately". They said it could take 6 - 8 weeks to determine this and there was nothing more I could do. Coincidently 8 weeks would put me outside of the BA promotion date.
Has anyone every ran into this? Thoughts/help appreciated.
Aug 21, 2016, 12:40 pm
#748
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Delta PM
Posts: 323
This is being discussed at length in another thread:
[OFFER DEAD, MR accounts frozen, some bonuses clawed back] 100k Amex Plat (USA)
[OFFER DEAD, MR accounts frozen, some bonuses clawed back] 100k Amex Plat (USA)
Aug 21, 2016, 12:41 pm
#749
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
Posts: 10,052
[blows dust off FT link in favorites]
This is a success story with regards to the 100k plat offer so reading this and how I think we did it may help you...
I haven't posted here in ages in part because over exposure of any good MS deals in here and on the evil blogs ruined the sport for the most part, but this is one instance in which posting on FT can be of use for helping people like me recover lost boni.
Like many of you, I signed my wife up for the plat card, which she never had. She had many other cards and still has spg personal and biz, pretty much the only ones left we value for a variety of reasons.
She did the spend and yes, there was a cvs charge on there and something from the mall, but she did a good $3800 in spend all told anyway, and continued to use the card afterwards.
The 100k never came.
We later called MR and they escalated it. It posted.
Then she tried to convert it to Virgin America (that jetblue promo which I ended up doing and it worked) but they would not go over. We got an error.
45 mins of calling to Amex moving up a chain of people eventually landed us at a supervisor who told us this acct was held up at the corporate level and had no further info except to advise us it should be cleared "soon" and to try back in 30 days. This was late June.
We were traveling and didn't end up trying again until late July. We had since used the CC to rent cars all over Europe and spent a good $1200 on that on the Plat CC. Card worked fine.
Late July she (I) went online and tried to redeem for just a couple K DL and no go. Same error. Says to call Amex. We knew that would get us nowhere fast so we knew they were doggin us. Saw something on a reddit thread about all this too with people having similar issues as are posted in here. So it was nationwide and not on our side. lol
Having heard many horror stories by now, we wrote to the CFPB.
Sent in her plight on August 10 expecting to wait a while.
On Aug 12 Amex replied so CFPB had us log in to see their response. It basically said sorry, you lose, we dont like your activity and we are going to remove the 100k.
So she wrote again, this time to an address we found here:
http://elliott.org/company-contacts/american-express/
And we picked this bloke:
Doug Buckminster
President, Global Consumer Services Group
200 Vesey Street
50th Floor
New York, NY 10285-0001
[email protected]
It is a good idea to NOT nec start with the CEO but to later migrate to there if nothing else works.
She also snail mailed her same response with copies of her statement and other things to the address at Amex they had on their CFPB response using certified mail return receipt. We never heard anything, but by last Fri, Aug 18, her 103k+ points were still there in her acct, not taken as was threatened.
In her letter she asked to specify exactly what it was that she could have bought that should not count. She also suggested that maybe it was all the fault of Amex. Had they let a bad link out and people signed up for the card, then that is more the fault of Amex marketing and IT, not the customers. They should award the points. As well, if Amex was planning on taking away the 100k points because something we bought should not have made the bonus trigger, then they should actually be taking away more than just 100k, and should be also not awarding for those purchases themselves. But since they were planning to award for those purchases themselves, it further proved that this was not really about spend at all, rather, a glitch they stupidly let go by. So we pursued the issue hoping to hear back. Once you use CFPB once, you kinda only get a response and then you are done, but sending the letter to that exec and in certified mail may have helped because of this:
On Fri the 18th my wife redeemed 100k MR for 2 $500 Home Depot e gcs.
It went thru and did not give us that annoying error everyone is getting right when they click submit. But she only got one email saying ok you redeemed but no e gc emails from amex.
today, she got on chat and asked where they were.
The chat guy had to put her on hold for a bit but came back and gave her a link to something within amex that showed the 2 GCs! She was able to click them and print and see the codes. We later went to the store and have used them both for something we were going to buy anyway for our home. So cha ching, $1,000! Money we should have had!
I might have wanted to have left MR in there for some airline gig or transfer later on, because we all know that can be worth far more than $1k, but at this point we do NOT trust Amex or having ANY MR in our accts! She now has just over 3k left and has never seen anything new post from those July car rentals so is expecting another 1200 or so and we hope to just burn it on other gcs and get out.
So we got lucky but maybe her letter to the exec helped. I'd like to think it had and that the carefully planned wording in her final letter was what made it work out for us, and so yes, we will pursue the forthcoming 1200 mr and the ability to use what little we have left, and then be kinda done with this card. May wait for next year to get the other airline credit or may cxl and try to get a prorated refund of the AF. Dunno on that part yet. Our costs here include the few dollars to send a letter certified return receipt and the frustration we and all of you have suffered, plus the knowledge that Amex basically S*CKS!
BTW in another "test" of sorts, just to prove how inconsistent amex is about what it says it will count for points and why, I took my MR card, the Everyday card, and bought one CVS gc and one mall GC with it. When those points post next statement, I will redeem them for a $10 E GC at Home Depot. Why would that work for me but not for my wife's card? Because it's not really about the spend! Even if their TCs may mention the thinking that buying certain products may not count for points earnings, I do not think that is why they originally held up everyone's' accounts here. I think it was something beyond that, and those of us who take them to task will get to use our points, just as my wife has. Again, I do not think it is wise to trust them with MR after this--MS spend or not!
Here it all is, for those of you who enjoy reading another LONGGGGG post from MM!
Fee free to use any of it to get results of your own--with my help and savvy in trying to push the right buttons, she sent the following, and below I have also posted the amex reply from her cfpb complaint, and her initial cfpb complaint below that. All of this can be useful to those who really want to take amex to task:
August 13, 2016
American Express
Customer Advocate Services Team
4315 S. 2700 W.
MC 020162 Salt Lake City, UT 84184
ATTN: B. Moore
Dear Mr./Ms. Moore (I wish you would have included your full name, just as I do),
Thank you for your quick reply to my recent CFPB complaint concerning my 100, 000+ Membership Rewards (“MR”) bonus offer on my platinum card account. In my mailing, I have enclosed copies of everything for your review because I do not agree with your decision and I think we should have another look at this.
I wrote the CFPB and you wrote back and I received your letter dated August 12 in their online system as a downloadable attachment.
You said this in your letter:
“Your MR account was reviewed to make sure the total of all eligible purchases met the spend requirement during the promotional period. Unfortunately, our records indicate you did not meet the eligible spend requirement to receive the promotional offer on your Platinum Card. Therefore, the 100,000 MR points which were added to the account will be removed. This is in accordance with the terms and conditions that were presented to you during your application.”
Also enclosed in my mailing is a print out of all or most of my detailed transactions on this card since I received it in May, showing that I had in fact spent well over the $3,000 needed to earn the 100k MR bonus. If memory serves, that was the required amount.
Unless I am having trouble with my eyesight I am wondering what I am not seeing when looking over all the transactions I have made in the first 92 days of having the card. What transactions shown on there do not add up to over the spend amount needed? Kindly enlighten me.
Now, if you believe I made purchases that do not count for some reason, then kindly write back and inform me of which ones these were and where exactly in your terms and conditions those things are forbidden from earning points. Please do consider that I am not a lawyer and, again, since I may have eyesight issues, I would really like it if you could physically highlight these terms if you choose to send me one of those often un-dated small-typed terms and conditions brochures that also often contain all too general language and can be interpreted in many ways.
I believe one of two things may have been the case: American Express offered a link to apply for this card that it suddenly felt it should not have offered or American Express offered it through affiliate means it later internally retracted, but are now effectively blaming its customers who unknowingly signed up under that link. Or, your team believes I may have bought something which somehow (unbeknownst to me, the paying customer) does not earn MR points and therefore, the points earned for that purchase and any bonus it triggered would not count, but your team only recently has decided to review accounts like mine and hold up the bonuses and other points in the account until something we cannot see is determined...
I am sure you can appreciate that I will need to see—exactly—what it was, where it was, and why in order for me to fully understand and possibly accept your decision or take the case to a higher entity to help sort it out. Forgive me, but for your next reply, you are going to have to do better than a form letter with a machine generated signature. Please don’t insult me with that.
You gave me the points in the first place, which is an indication that I met the appropriate “spend.” The points showed up in my account online and every department from Chat up to the supervisory level thought I actually had those points too, until I had finally “climbed the ladder” on my late June 45 minute call to your company and reached someone named Jasmine, ID #1311372. On the call, she told my husband and me about the account being reviewed at the corporate level and to just wait for it to be completed but gave no indication as to when that would be done.
Something that is disturbing (and I actually wonder if your team did this on purpose) is that your review period took so long to determine eligibility for, that by the time you were done, it would be too late for me to try and spend more money to earn the bonus. I only became aware of this “internal review at the corporate level” in June when my husband and I were in my account online and he was trying to help me redeem points (which is why I had him speaking on the phone with me to Jasmine), and it was my complaint to the CFPB that obviously forced you to finally announce to me your determination.
If for some reason you or someone like Jasmine were to indicate that I didn't meet the spend in time back when this started, then you should have given me an opportunity to meet the spend and we would have had time to do so. But she indicated that even she could not see what was really going on behind the curtain. You awarded the points and they showed up on my account online. But had you never awarded the points to begin with or had you told me that I had not met the spend requirement due to something I bought or something wrong with something else about the card, then I still could have had a chance to do it within those 92 days because I would have seen that I still needed to meet the requirement. Instead, you appear to have waited just until that 92 days was past to tell me it is too late to get this bonus and you want to remove what has shown up on my online account all this time. Strangely convenient and quite sloppy, don’t you agree?
One “sloppy” part of your letter is where you said, “Unfortunately, our records indicate you did not meet the eligible spend requirement to receive the promotional offer on your Platinum Card. Therefore, the 100,000 MR points which were added to the account will be removed.” Wouldn’t it be more like an exact points number between 100,001 and 103,000? That is, if the bonus is being removed because of something you feel I did when making the spend, then the purchases themselves that made up that spend would have also not been valid to have earned MR. Why do you fail to tally those? Which ones were they and why? What exact amounts do not count? The fact you fail to mention these crucial pieces of information shows me that you are just pulling this stuff out of the hat and your entire determination is bogus and not well thought out, and that you have little respect for other peoples’ time and effort. If it was not my spend that was the real concern, but rather, something about how your company erroneously offered the bonus, then that would not be my problem. I should still legitimately receive it.
In either case I am quite disturbed by the outcome of all of this—the card has far less use to me if the points do not count or if you just take them back for arbitrary reasons people like me cannot fully understand. Unless American Express is delving into committing the same sorts of unfair or unethical practices it now claims its customers or marketing affiliates are doing, then I am certain you can fix the glitches on your own time and re-award me those points!
Like I said, from everything I can tell, I did in fact make the qualifying amount of purchase activity within the 92 day period. In the end, you can see I recently used it to rent two cars in Europe for charges totaling over $1,000, indicating my further commitment to using the card well after any bonuses may have posted. An earlier transaction was Subway for $4.80 and Zoro Tools for just over $300. Do those even count? Why can’t I even use 1,000 or even just 200 of my MR points that were generated from these transaction examples and when will they become unlocked? What will post on the next statement cut and what of those MR will count for me? Why must I go through multiple levels of calling in order to reach someone who just tells me this is being reviewed at the corporate level and then hear nothing until I wrote the CFPB? I’m at a loss and sadly, it appears that you are quite aware of this and possibly almost comfy with the fact. Is that how I am to believe things work at American Express now?
I would really like your detailed help on this issue and then I will know what to buy, what not to buy and of course, going forward, if I should even bother using an American Express card to make my purchases anyway. Should I even trust your company and its marketing in the future because links to offers may not be valid and no one tells us anything until later? Would you trust the company if this kind of thing had happened to you?
Sincerely,
MM's wife
PS: In my CFPB claim, there was a question asking the monetary value of my claim. It did not include the value of any charges done for the next statement on the card, but either way I still seek the full amount of points I believe I earned and continue to earn when using the card.
*****
The Amex reply to her original complaint:
American Express
4315 S. 2700 W.
MC 020162 Salt Lake City, UT 84184
August 12, 2016
Mrs. MM
CFPB Ref No: XXX
Subject: Concerns Regarding the Promotional Offer Linked to Your Platinum Card® from American Express
Ending in 41007
Dear Mrs. MM,
Your recent correspondence to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) concerning your above referenced account has been forwarded to me for review. Thank you for taking the time to share this matter with us. We have completed the review of your Membership Rewards account. Please allow me to respond to your inquiry.
American Express records indicate you applied for a Platinum Card® from American Express via americanexpress.com on May 9, 2016, and were approved the same day. Offered with the application was the opportunity to earn 100,000 Membership Rewards (MR) points after spending $3,000.00 in eligible purchase within the first 92 days of Card Membership. 100,000 MR points were added to your MR account on June 27, 2016.
Your MR account was reviewed to make sure the total of all eligible purchases met the spend requirement during the promotional period. Unfortunately, our records indicate you did not meet the eligible spend requirement to receive the promotional offer on your Platinum Card. Therefore, the 100,000 MR points which were added to the account will be removed. This is in accordance with the terms and conditions that were presented to you during your application.
We understand how important MR points are to you and appreciate you sharing your feedback regarding your experience. Despite your frustration with this experience, we wish to thank you for your continued membership. Our hope is that you will continue to use and find benefit in the Platinum Card, such as the Airline Fee Credit of up to $200.00 per calendar Year for incidental charged to your Platinum Card by your selected airline. For more information about your Platinum Card benefits or to select your airline, visit www.americanexpress.com/platinum or call Customer Service 24 hours a day,
7 days a week at 800-525-3355.
Mrs. MM, thank you for your Membership since 1988. We value your Card Membership and look forward to providing you with the quality service you expect from American Express.
Sincerely,
B. Moore
Customer Advocate Services Team
American Express
Global Servicing Network, Salt Lake City, UT
*****
Her original complaint to CFPB on 10 August:
In May I was approved for and received my American Express Platinum card. I began using it and eventually reached a spending threshold which awarded me 100,000 of their Membership Rewards(R) Points, as promised. On June 8 I was charged their $450 annual fee and I have continued to use this card and have no balance due at this time. After other charges I now have, as the time of this writing, 103,598 points and my Membership Rewards(R) Program Number ends in 1099. My credit card ends in 1007. I have been a customer of American Express for decades and have good standing with them and good credit as well. I followed any and all terms and conditions for this card when making purchases and for earning or trying to use points.
These points can be used to transfer to airlines or other services for travel or commerce. Onoe is supposed to be able to simply link the American Express account online with other listed programs such as airline accounts, etc, and then make an online transfer after filling in their online forms. In June I tried to do an online transfer of 100,000 of my points and received the following error online:
"Unable to process your request
We are unable to complete your order. Please do not attempt to resubmit the order, as this will only delay the process. Please contact us at 888-654-0034 between 8:00 am and 8:00 pm ET, Sunday through Saturday."
I called American Express and spent no less than 45 minutes on the phone being transferred up a chain of CSRs and supervisors, all who thought my account was fine, and eventually reached someone who told me that some accounts are being reviewed at the corporate level, and the points would be available "soon." She could not tell me anything else. I waited. Today I tried to transfer 500 MR points to one of my linked accounts online and got the same error. It also came with error code: code: LRP0617. Online chat is unable to help, further phone calls will result in longer waiting and no real answers, and in the meantime, my points, which I properly earned, cannot be used. Why are they in my account if they cannot be used? I think American Express is pulling a bait and switch of sorts if it offers something like this but now doesn't let its customers actually take advantage of it. If they have some sort of internal issue being worked on by corporate, they should have solved that before hand on their time and stop wasting mine. I have actually visited online forums and have learned there are many others with this card experiencing the exact same issue. As well, a friend of mine from another state is also having it happen to him and his wife, so many people--not just me--are having their points held up by American Express and that is help money!
What I want is for you to help me get them to release any hold they have on my points and NOTIFY ME IMMEDIATELY without me having to contact them and fight for an answer again. Why did I pay $450 for a card that has no intention of letting me use its benefits?
This is a success story with regards to the 100k plat offer so reading this and how I think we did it may help you...
I haven't posted here in ages in part because over exposure of any good MS deals in here and on the evil blogs ruined the sport for the most part, but this is one instance in which posting on FT can be of use for helping people like me recover lost boni.
Like many of you, I signed my wife up for the plat card, which she never had. She had many other cards and still has spg personal and biz, pretty much the only ones left we value for a variety of reasons.
She did the spend and yes, there was a cvs charge on there and something from the mall, but she did a good $3800 in spend all told anyway, and continued to use the card afterwards.
The 100k never came.
We later called MR and they escalated it. It posted.
Then she tried to convert it to Virgin America (that jetblue promo which I ended up doing and it worked) but they would not go over. We got an error.
45 mins of calling to Amex moving up a chain of people eventually landed us at a supervisor who told us this acct was held up at the corporate level and had no further info except to advise us it should be cleared "soon" and to try back in 30 days. This was late June.
We were traveling and didn't end up trying again until late July. We had since used the CC to rent cars all over Europe and spent a good $1200 on that on the Plat CC. Card worked fine.
Late July she (I) went online and tried to redeem for just a couple K DL and no go. Same error. Says to call Amex. We knew that would get us nowhere fast so we knew they were doggin us. Saw something on a reddit thread about all this too with people having similar issues as are posted in here. So it was nationwide and not on our side. lol
Having heard many horror stories by now, we wrote to the CFPB.
Sent in her plight on August 10 expecting to wait a while.
On Aug 12 Amex replied so CFPB had us log in to see their response. It basically said sorry, you lose, we dont like your activity and we are going to remove the 100k.
So she wrote again, this time to an address we found here:
http://elliott.org/company-contacts/american-express/
And we picked this bloke:
Doug Buckminster
President, Global Consumer Services Group
200 Vesey Street
50th Floor
New York, NY 10285-0001
[email protected]
It is a good idea to NOT nec start with the CEO but to later migrate to there if nothing else works.
She also snail mailed her same response with copies of her statement and other things to the address at Amex they had on their CFPB response using certified mail return receipt. We never heard anything, but by last Fri, Aug 18, her 103k+ points were still there in her acct, not taken as was threatened.
In her letter she asked to specify exactly what it was that she could have bought that should not count. She also suggested that maybe it was all the fault of Amex. Had they let a bad link out and people signed up for the card, then that is more the fault of Amex marketing and IT, not the customers. They should award the points. As well, if Amex was planning on taking away the 100k points because something we bought should not have made the bonus trigger, then they should actually be taking away more than just 100k, and should be also not awarding for those purchases themselves. But since they were planning to award for those purchases themselves, it further proved that this was not really about spend at all, rather, a glitch they stupidly let go by. So we pursued the issue hoping to hear back. Once you use CFPB once, you kinda only get a response and then you are done, but sending the letter to that exec and in certified mail may have helped because of this:
On Fri the 18th my wife redeemed 100k MR for 2 $500 Home Depot e gcs.
It went thru and did not give us that annoying error everyone is getting right when they click submit. But she only got one email saying ok you redeemed but no e gc emails from amex.
today, she got on chat and asked where they were.
The chat guy had to put her on hold for a bit but came back and gave her a link to something within amex that showed the 2 GCs! She was able to click them and print and see the codes. We later went to the store and have used them both for something we were going to buy anyway for our home. So cha ching, $1,000! Money we should have had!
I might have wanted to have left MR in there for some airline gig or transfer later on, because we all know that can be worth far more than $1k, but at this point we do NOT trust Amex or having ANY MR in our accts! She now has just over 3k left and has never seen anything new post from those July car rentals so is expecting another 1200 or so and we hope to just burn it on other gcs and get out.
So we got lucky but maybe her letter to the exec helped. I'd like to think it had and that the carefully planned wording in her final letter was what made it work out for us, and so yes, we will pursue the forthcoming 1200 mr and the ability to use what little we have left, and then be kinda done with this card. May wait for next year to get the other airline credit or may cxl and try to get a prorated refund of the AF. Dunno on that part yet. Our costs here include the few dollars to send a letter certified return receipt and the frustration we and all of you have suffered, plus the knowledge that Amex basically S*CKS!
BTW in another "test" of sorts, just to prove how inconsistent amex is about what it says it will count for points and why, I took my MR card, the Everyday card, and bought one CVS gc and one mall GC with it. When those points post next statement, I will redeem them for a $10 E GC at Home Depot. Why would that work for me but not for my wife's card? Because it's not really about the spend! Even if their TCs may mention the thinking that buying certain products may not count for points earnings, I do not think that is why they originally held up everyone's' accounts here. I think it was something beyond that, and those of us who take them to task will get to use our points, just as my wife has. Again, I do not think it is wise to trust them with MR after this--MS spend or not!
Here it all is, for those of you who enjoy reading another LONGGGGG post from MM!
Fee free to use any of it to get results of your own--with my help and savvy in trying to push the right buttons, she sent the following, and below I have also posted the amex reply from her cfpb complaint, and her initial cfpb complaint below that. All of this can be useful to those who really want to take amex to task:
August 13, 2016
American Express
Customer Advocate Services Team
4315 S. 2700 W.
MC 020162 Salt Lake City, UT 84184
ATTN: B. Moore
Dear Mr./Ms. Moore (I wish you would have included your full name, just as I do),
Thank you for your quick reply to my recent CFPB complaint concerning my 100, 000+ Membership Rewards (“MR”) bonus offer on my platinum card account. In my mailing, I have enclosed copies of everything for your review because I do not agree with your decision and I think we should have another look at this.
I wrote the CFPB and you wrote back and I received your letter dated August 12 in their online system as a downloadable attachment.
You said this in your letter:
“Your MR account was reviewed to make sure the total of all eligible purchases met the spend requirement during the promotional period. Unfortunately, our records indicate you did not meet the eligible spend requirement to receive the promotional offer on your Platinum Card. Therefore, the 100,000 MR points which were added to the account will be removed. This is in accordance with the terms and conditions that were presented to you during your application.”
Also enclosed in my mailing is a print out of all or most of my detailed transactions on this card since I received it in May, showing that I had in fact spent well over the $3,000 needed to earn the 100k MR bonus. If memory serves, that was the required amount.
Unless I am having trouble with my eyesight I am wondering what I am not seeing when looking over all the transactions I have made in the first 92 days of having the card. What transactions shown on there do not add up to over the spend amount needed? Kindly enlighten me.
Now, if you believe I made purchases that do not count for some reason, then kindly write back and inform me of which ones these were and where exactly in your terms and conditions those things are forbidden from earning points. Please do consider that I am not a lawyer and, again, since I may have eyesight issues, I would really like it if you could physically highlight these terms if you choose to send me one of those often un-dated small-typed terms and conditions brochures that also often contain all too general language and can be interpreted in many ways.
I believe one of two things may have been the case: American Express offered a link to apply for this card that it suddenly felt it should not have offered or American Express offered it through affiliate means it later internally retracted, but are now effectively blaming its customers who unknowingly signed up under that link. Or, your team believes I may have bought something which somehow (unbeknownst to me, the paying customer) does not earn MR points and therefore, the points earned for that purchase and any bonus it triggered would not count, but your team only recently has decided to review accounts like mine and hold up the bonuses and other points in the account until something we cannot see is determined...
I am sure you can appreciate that I will need to see—exactly—what it was, where it was, and why in order for me to fully understand and possibly accept your decision or take the case to a higher entity to help sort it out. Forgive me, but for your next reply, you are going to have to do better than a form letter with a machine generated signature. Please don’t insult me with that.
You gave me the points in the first place, which is an indication that I met the appropriate “spend.” The points showed up in my account online and every department from Chat up to the supervisory level thought I actually had those points too, until I had finally “climbed the ladder” on my late June 45 minute call to your company and reached someone named Jasmine, ID #1311372. On the call, she told my husband and me about the account being reviewed at the corporate level and to just wait for it to be completed but gave no indication as to when that would be done.
Something that is disturbing (and I actually wonder if your team did this on purpose) is that your review period took so long to determine eligibility for, that by the time you were done, it would be too late for me to try and spend more money to earn the bonus. I only became aware of this “internal review at the corporate level” in June when my husband and I were in my account online and he was trying to help me redeem points (which is why I had him speaking on the phone with me to Jasmine), and it was my complaint to the CFPB that obviously forced you to finally announce to me your determination.
If for some reason you or someone like Jasmine were to indicate that I didn't meet the spend in time back when this started, then you should have given me an opportunity to meet the spend and we would have had time to do so. But she indicated that even she could not see what was really going on behind the curtain. You awarded the points and they showed up on my account online. But had you never awarded the points to begin with or had you told me that I had not met the spend requirement due to something I bought or something wrong with something else about the card, then I still could have had a chance to do it within those 92 days because I would have seen that I still needed to meet the requirement. Instead, you appear to have waited just until that 92 days was past to tell me it is too late to get this bonus and you want to remove what has shown up on my online account all this time. Strangely convenient and quite sloppy, don’t you agree?
One “sloppy” part of your letter is where you said, “Unfortunately, our records indicate you did not meet the eligible spend requirement to receive the promotional offer on your Platinum Card. Therefore, the 100,000 MR points which were added to the account will be removed.” Wouldn’t it be more like an exact points number between 100,001 and 103,000? That is, if the bonus is being removed because of something you feel I did when making the spend, then the purchases themselves that made up that spend would have also not been valid to have earned MR. Why do you fail to tally those? Which ones were they and why? What exact amounts do not count? The fact you fail to mention these crucial pieces of information shows me that you are just pulling this stuff out of the hat and your entire determination is bogus and not well thought out, and that you have little respect for other peoples’ time and effort. If it was not my spend that was the real concern, but rather, something about how your company erroneously offered the bonus, then that would not be my problem. I should still legitimately receive it.
In either case I am quite disturbed by the outcome of all of this—the card has far less use to me if the points do not count or if you just take them back for arbitrary reasons people like me cannot fully understand. Unless American Express is delving into committing the same sorts of unfair or unethical practices it now claims its customers or marketing affiliates are doing, then I am certain you can fix the glitches on your own time and re-award me those points!
Like I said, from everything I can tell, I did in fact make the qualifying amount of purchase activity within the 92 day period. In the end, you can see I recently used it to rent two cars in Europe for charges totaling over $1,000, indicating my further commitment to using the card well after any bonuses may have posted. An earlier transaction was Subway for $4.80 and Zoro Tools for just over $300. Do those even count? Why can’t I even use 1,000 or even just 200 of my MR points that were generated from these transaction examples and when will they become unlocked? What will post on the next statement cut and what of those MR will count for me? Why must I go through multiple levels of calling in order to reach someone who just tells me this is being reviewed at the corporate level and then hear nothing until I wrote the CFPB? I’m at a loss and sadly, it appears that you are quite aware of this and possibly almost comfy with the fact. Is that how I am to believe things work at American Express now?
I would really like your detailed help on this issue and then I will know what to buy, what not to buy and of course, going forward, if I should even bother using an American Express card to make my purchases anyway. Should I even trust your company and its marketing in the future because links to offers may not be valid and no one tells us anything until later? Would you trust the company if this kind of thing had happened to you?
Sincerely,
MM's wife
PS: In my CFPB claim, there was a question asking the monetary value of my claim. It did not include the value of any charges done for the next statement on the card, but either way I still seek the full amount of points I believe I earned and continue to earn when using the card.
*****
The Amex reply to her original complaint:
American Express
4315 S. 2700 W.
MC 020162 Salt Lake City, UT 84184
August 12, 2016
Mrs. MM
CFPB Ref No: XXX
Subject: Concerns Regarding the Promotional Offer Linked to Your Platinum Card® from American Express
Ending in 41007
Dear Mrs. MM,
Your recent correspondence to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) concerning your above referenced account has been forwarded to me for review. Thank you for taking the time to share this matter with us. We have completed the review of your Membership Rewards account. Please allow me to respond to your inquiry.
American Express records indicate you applied for a Platinum Card® from American Express via americanexpress.com on May 9, 2016, and were approved the same day. Offered with the application was the opportunity to earn 100,000 Membership Rewards (MR) points after spending $3,000.00 in eligible purchase within the first 92 days of Card Membership. 100,000 MR points were added to your MR account on June 27, 2016.
Your MR account was reviewed to make sure the total of all eligible purchases met the spend requirement during the promotional period. Unfortunately, our records indicate you did not meet the eligible spend requirement to receive the promotional offer on your Platinum Card. Therefore, the 100,000 MR points which were added to the account will be removed. This is in accordance with the terms and conditions that were presented to you during your application.
We understand how important MR points are to you and appreciate you sharing your feedback regarding your experience. Despite your frustration with this experience, we wish to thank you for your continued membership. Our hope is that you will continue to use and find benefit in the Platinum Card, such as the Airline Fee Credit of up to $200.00 per calendar Year for incidental charged to your Platinum Card by your selected airline. For more information about your Platinum Card benefits or to select your airline, visit www.americanexpress.com/platinum or call Customer Service 24 hours a day,
7 days a week at 800-525-3355.
Mrs. MM, thank you for your Membership since 1988. We value your Card Membership and look forward to providing you with the quality service you expect from American Express.
Sincerely,
B. Moore
Customer Advocate Services Team
American Express
Global Servicing Network, Salt Lake City, UT
*****
Her original complaint to CFPB on 10 August:
In May I was approved for and received my American Express Platinum card. I began using it and eventually reached a spending threshold which awarded me 100,000 of their Membership Rewards(R) Points, as promised. On June 8 I was charged their $450 annual fee and I have continued to use this card and have no balance due at this time. After other charges I now have, as the time of this writing, 103,598 points and my Membership Rewards(R) Program Number ends in 1099. My credit card ends in 1007. I have been a customer of American Express for decades and have good standing with them and good credit as well. I followed any and all terms and conditions for this card when making purchases and for earning or trying to use points.
These points can be used to transfer to airlines or other services for travel or commerce. Onoe is supposed to be able to simply link the American Express account online with other listed programs such as airline accounts, etc, and then make an online transfer after filling in their online forms. In June I tried to do an online transfer of 100,000 of my points and received the following error online:
"Unable to process your request
We are unable to complete your order. Please do not attempt to resubmit the order, as this will only delay the process. Please contact us at 888-654-0034 between 8:00 am and 8:00 pm ET, Sunday through Saturday."
I called American Express and spent no less than 45 minutes on the phone being transferred up a chain of CSRs and supervisors, all who thought my account was fine, and eventually reached someone who told me that some accounts are being reviewed at the corporate level, and the points would be available "soon." She could not tell me anything else. I waited. Today I tried to transfer 500 MR points to one of my linked accounts online and got the same error. It also came with error code: code: LRP0617. Online chat is unable to help, further phone calls will result in longer waiting and no real answers, and in the meantime, my points, which I properly earned, cannot be used. Why are they in my account if they cannot be used? I think American Express is pulling a bait and switch of sorts if it offers something like this but now doesn't let its customers actually take advantage of it. If they have some sort of internal issue being worked on by corporate, they should have solved that before hand on their time and stop wasting mine. I have actually visited online forums and have learned there are many others with this card experiencing the exact same issue. As well, a friend of mine from another state is also having it happen to him and his wife, so many people--not just me--are having their points held up by American Express and that is help money!
What I want is for you to help me get them to release any hold they have on my points and NOTIFY ME IMMEDIATELY without me having to contact them and fight for an answer again. Why did I pay $450 for a card that has no intention of letting me use its benefits?
Last edited by Marathon Man; Aug 21, 2016 at 12:47 pm
Aug 21, 2016, 12:50 pm
#750
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Georgia
Programs: DL DM/2MM
Posts: 1,036
Yes, the mod will probably merge this thread into that other one.
By the way, your points almost certainly were not frozen that "exact day." It's just that you weren't aware that your points were frozen until you tried to use them.
By the way, your points almost certainly were not frozen that "exact day." It's just that you weren't aware that your points were frozen until you tried to use them.